lissa_quon (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
lissa_quon) wrote2010-05-09 04:06 am
lissa_quon) wrote2010-05-09 04:06 am
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What (Young) Women Want (In Comics)
Still twitchy, can't do too much right now, so heres a survey about girls reading comics I was answering for ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
hopelarson's journal but got it done after she didn't want any more responses. So I figured since I spent time on it I could at least post it here. It is really interesting seeing everyone else's responses in her blog.
1) How old were you when you started reading comics?
4 or so I had Highlights magazine, I fricking loved the Timbertoes as a kid.
7 years old I started getting to the watered down kids version of the X-men, mainly enclosed comics that came my kids meal or something like that.
2) How did you first discover comics?
I had an interest in them in elementry school due to the influx oc comic based cartoons at the time but never actually got around to reading them.
The first REAL comics I read was the DC Vertigo Books of Magic my sis left sitting around when I was ten or so. I mainly discovered them via what my sister (who was dating a comic nerd) had sitting around.
Also read some early Tokyo Pop manga at this point (MixxManga so it had the usual Sailor Moon and Rayearth but also some more mature stuff like Parasyte and Iceblade)
When I got into high school I was introduced to Ranma 1/2 and I got my first real dose of manga.
3) What comics were your favorites as a teen/tween? Any reason why?
Ranma 1/2 - it was so ridiculous and silly, plus it had that juvenile sexual humor that appealed to me at that age
Aria - the art was ridiculously pretty and I liked the fairy/folklore use. Plus Kildare was a fun character, she was immortal, attractive without being built like a Barbie and very liberated.
JTHM - I was gothy and cynical and that appealed to part of me at the time.
Meridian – female lead, lots of character focus, pretty art and fairly decent story that looked like it was going somewhere. While it was clearly marketed for me (teenage girl) and openly admitted it I never felt like it dumbed anything down to me or softened any edges just cause it was for girls.
The villain was a real villain, the conflict while it was being handled on mainly a political front it was a real problem and there were romantic sub plots but they were back seat to the main adventure line.
Ruse – fun female lead, mystery and something that was a nudge from being steampunk, it was a nice fun read and there was some intelligence involved. Though in retrospect it was pretty much a very prettily done riff off of Sherlock Holmes with Watson being a woman.
Courtney Crumrin - once again, awesome female lead, well handled story, awesome art (no one handles black and white art as beautifully as Ted Naifeh) Targeted to high schoolers and more likely a bit younger it never talked down to us, never took it easy on us and could sometimes be damn scary.
Lazarus Churchyard - Not joking. This graphic novel compilation of a defunct cyberpunk series was very popular with me and my high school friends (male and female). The weird setting, the violence, the foul language and the fact that somehow the lead, an indestructible violent jerk ass, managed to be entertaining and sympathetic. We ate it up, we quoted it, it just appealed to us.
Blade of the Immortal - Pretty much the most elaborate/violent, well drawn samurai show down known to man. My friends and I loved this one and passed it around. The female character was annoying but we took it with a grain of salt (her age, time period etc) and mainly stuck around for the blood and the crazy characters and plot.
4) Where did you get your comics? A comic shop? Library? Bookshop? Large book retailer like Barnes & Noble, Borders, or Books-A-Million? Amazon? The Internet?
Mainly my local comic book store, and the occasional graphic novel from Borders
When I was in high school manga and comics hadn’t really hit the main stores yet to I had to go to my local comic book stores if I wanted anything. I actually had a pull list going (though tiny) at a local store for a while.
5) Did you illegally download scans or scanlations, and did scans comprise a significant amount of the comics you read? (I'm not here to judge. I've done this, too. Just be honest!)
When I was in high school scanlations weren't very big, onemanga and such didnt' exist so I had to settle for hunting up individual translators and downloading massive zip files of manga chapters. But I did, and quite frequently too.Though I rarely kept the chapters, mainly deleting them when I was done.
6) Did you attend comic or anime conventions? Free Comic Book Day? Comics-related library events?
In high school, no. There were no local cons and the first anime con in my area was planned for the year after I graduated. Since then have attended both types of cons, both for fun and for work (I sell artwork.)
I recall going the first free comic book day in my senior year. So yea, I knew about it and went. Since then I've never had time to.
7) In your opinion, what can authors, publishers and retailers do to better serve teen/tween girls?
AUTHORS/ARTISTS - Decent female characters, and by decent I mean decently written. They don’t have to be some tough as nails ball breakers, just give us decently handled characters that aren’t just orbiting a male character or awaiting a kidnap/rescue.
Girls are people too, we are human we have similar drives and desires that guys do. Talk to women, talk to girls, honestly we aren’t some strange species that live off of shoes and yogurt.
Tone down the fan service or at least make it equal. I’ve learned over time to take it with a grain of salt, probably like most women readers have. But a lot of possible readers are lost because they can’t over look the fan service.
The problem with fan service is not only is it awkward for the female reader is also sends us the message “THIS ISN’T FOR YOU.” No sense reading and paying for something that clearly one doesn’t want me to read.
Rape is not a decent plot device. This is a writing device even Alan Moore abuses, and uses to horrible extent.
A love story is not necessary.If it fits the story, great, if it doesn’t don’t shoehorn it in there.
PUBLISHERS – Girls can like the same titles guys do. I read Hellboy, and Hellsing and Transmetropolitan. But I also read Ouran High School Host Club and Strangers in Paradise.
However a few girl oriented titles are a good idea, Ruse and Meridian were my favs in high school and I still mourn their demise. Just remember that girls can like adventures and conflicts too, my least favorite books in high school were the "girls" books about getting your period or being ugly and never getting kissed.
I will not go after something just cause it’s pink and flowery. Typically I will run the opposite direction, but this is a personal preference.
Girl readers exist, I know many folks in the other geek entertainment industries have trouble grasping that so I’ll repeat this. GIRL GEEKS DO EXIST. This is part of why manga showed up and is so strong, it appeals to the girls that the American comics tend to ignore.
RETAILERS - Stop with the dank creepy cave atmosphere.
I’ve actually had my mother get nervous for my safety in a couple of comic stores cause of atmosphere and some of the creepier looking customers. This is problematic when one is dependent on parents for rides if they think the comic book store looks like a rape cave.
Don’t try to automatically steer girls to the shoujo section. Don’t do this especially after they explain that they are not looking for shoujo and really want something that hopefully has “Hell” in the title. I love it when clerks give me suggestions by asking me what I’ve liked in the past and extrapolating from there like I was a normal person.
I honestly have no real opinion on whether or not having a “girls” section or a “guys” section is a good idea. My favorite stores stock things by genre or publisher, and in rare occasions by author if they are really popular (Gaiman, Moore, Mignola etc) and it seems to work out ok.
Now off to shower and try to sleep, I've got a long long week ahead of me.
hopelarson's journal but got it done after she didn't want any more responses. So I figured since I spent time on it I could at least post it here. It is really interesting seeing everyone else's responses in her blog.1) How old were you when you started reading comics?
4 or so I had Highlights magazine, I fricking loved the Timbertoes as a kid.
7 years old I started getting to the watered down kids version of the X-men, mainly enclosed comics that came my kids meal or something like that.
2) How did you first discover comics?
I had an interest in them in elementry school due to the influx oc comic based cartoons at the time but never actually got around to reading them.
The first REAL comics I read was the DC Vertigo Books of Magic my sis left sitting around when I was ten or so. I mainly discovered them via what my sister (who was dating a comic nerd) had sitting around.
Also read some early Tokyo Pop manga at this point (MixxManga so it had the usual Sailor Moon and Rayearth but also some more mature stuff like Parasyte and Iceblade)
When I got into high school I was introduced to Ranma 1/2 and I got my first real dose of manga.
3) What comics were your favorites as a teen/tween? Any reason why?
Ranma 1/2 - it was so ridiculous and silly, plus it had that juvenile sexual humor that appealed to me at that age
Aria - the art was ridiculously pretty and I liked the fairy/folklore use. Plus Kildare was a fun character, she was immortal, attractive without being built like a Barbie and very liberated.
JTHM - I was gothy and cynical and that appealed to part of me at the time.
Meridian – female lead, lots of character focus, pretty art and fairly decent story that looked like it was going somewhere. While it was clearly marketed for me (teenage girl) and openly admitted it I never felt like it dumbed anything down to me or softened any edges just cause it was for girls.
The villain was a real villain, the conflict while it was being handled on mainly a political front it was a real problem and there were romantic sub plots but they were back seat to the main adventure line.
Ruse – fun female lead, mystery and something that was a nudge from being steampunk, it was a nice fun read and there was some intelligence involved. Though in retrospect it was pretty much a very prettily done riff off of Sherlock Holmes with Watson being a woman.
Courtney Crumrin - once again, awesome female lead, well handled story, awesome art (no one handles black and white art as beautifully as Ted Naifeh) Targeted to high schoolers and more likely a bit younger it never talked down to us, never took it easy on us and could sometimes be damn scary.
Lazarus Churchyard - Not joking. This graphic novel compilation of a defunct cyberpunk series was very popular with me and my high school friends (male and female). The weird setting, the violence, the foul language and the fact that somehow the lead, an indestructible violent jerk ass, managed to be entertaining and sympathetic. We ate it up, we quoted it, it just appealed to us.
Blade of the Immortal - Pretty much the most elaborate/violent, well drawn samurai show down known to man. My friends and I loved this one and passed it around. The female character was annoying but we took it with a grain of salt (her age, time period etc) and mainly stuck around for the blood and the crazy characters and plot.
4) Where did you get your comics? A comic shop? Library? Bookshop? Large book retailer like Barnes & Noble, Borders, or Books-A-Million? Amazon? The Internet?
Mainly my local comic book store, and the occasional graphic novel from Borders
When I was in high school manga and comics hadn’t really hit the main stores yet to I had to go to my local comic book stores if I wanted anything. I actually had a pull list going (though tiny) at a local store for a while.
5) Did you illegally download scans or scanlations, and did scans comprise a significant amount of the comics you read? (I'm not here to judge. I've done this, too. Just be honest!)
When I was in high school scanlations weren't very big, onemanga and such didnt' exist so I had to settle for hunting up individual translators and downloading massive zip files of manga chapters. But I did, and quite frequently too.Though I rarely kept the chapters, mainly deleting them when I was done.
6) Did you attend comic or anime conventions? Free Comic Book Day? Comics-related library events?
In high school, no. There were no local cons and the first anime con in my area was planned for the year after I graduated. Since then have attended both types of cons, both for fun and for work (I sell artwork.)
I recall going the first free comic book day in my senior year. So yea, I knew about it and went. Since then I've never had time to.
7) In your opinion, what can authors, publishers and retailers do to better serve teen/tween girls?
AUTHORS/ARTISTS - Decent female characters, and by decent I mean decently written. They don’t have to be some tough as nails ball breakers, just give us decently handled characters that aren’t just orbiting a male character or awaiting a kidnap/rescue.
Girls are people too, we are human we have similar drives and desires that guys do. Talk to women, talk to girls, honestly we aren’t some strange species that live off of shoes and yogurt.
Tone down the fan service or at least make it equal. I’ve learned over time to take it with a grain of salt, probably like most women readers have. But a lot of possible readers are lost because they can’t over look the fan service.
The problem with fan service is not only is it awkward for the female reader is also sends us the message “THIS ISN’T FOR YOU.” No sense reading and paying for something that clearly one doesn’t want me to read.
Rape is not a decent plot device. This is a writing device even Alan Moore abuses, and uses to horrible extent.
A love story is not necessary.If it fits the story, great, if it doesn’t don’t shoehorn it in there.
PUBLISHERS – Girls can like the same titles guys do. I read Hellboy, and Hellsing and Transmetropolitan. But I also read Ouran High School Host Club and Strangers in Paradise.
However a few girl oriented titles are a good idea, Ruse and Meridian were my favs in high school and I still mourn their demise. Just remember that girls can like adventures and conflicts too, my least favorite books in high school were the "girls" books about getting your period or being ugly and never getting kissed.
I will not go after something just cause it’s pink and flowery. Typically I will run the opposite direction, but this is a personal preference.
Girl readers exist, I know many folks in the other geek entertainment industries have trouble grasping that so I’ll repeat this. GIRL GEEKS DO EXIST. This is part of why manga showed up and is so strong, it appeals to the girls that the American comics tend to ignore.
RETAILERS - Stop with the dank creepy cave atmosphere.
I’ve actually had my mother get nervous for my safety in a couple of comic stores cause of atmosphere and some of the creepier looking customers. This is problematic when one is dependent on parents for rides if they think the comic book store looks like a rape cave.
Don’t try to automatically steer girls to the shoujo section. Don’t do this especially after they explain that they are not looking for shoujo and really want something that hopefully has “Hell” in the title. I love it when clerks give me suggestions by asking me what I’ve liked in the past and extrapolating from there like I was a normal person.
I honestly have no real opinion on whether or not having a “girls” section or a “guys” section is a good idea. My favorite stores stock things by genre or publisher, and in rare occasions by author if they are really popular (Gaiman, Moore, Mignola etc) and it seems to work out ok.
Now off to shower and try to sleep, I've got a long long week ahead of me.